The difficulty in this is that it mentions three nights as well as three days. If we know the day of the week that the crucifixion took place on, this can be used to rule out a number of the possible years (in the range from AD 26 to AD 36). I will not go through all the information in Colin Humphrey's book but I will try to summarize the evidence as I see it. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This is a text widget. The gospel references where Jesus predicted he would rise in three days are Matt. Properly working out the Jewish calendar shows this to work for AD 33 (see C. Humphreys). He wrote extensively about natural phenomena earthquakes and such. The Biblical Astronomer, 8(84). 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad. . And calculation makes out that the period of 70 weeks, as noted in Daniel, is completed at this time." The diagram below will help to clarify this. From this brief statement, the skeptic wants to declare victory and go home. Some events regarding the life of Christ and the life of Paul the Apostle, which are mentioned in the New Testament can be dated. It has only been referenced in Christian apologist books hundreds of years later. The reality is, Plinys statement is not evidence against the Crucifixion darkness. This information would be every unlikely to have been added at a later time due to its specificity in time. Modern context of the calendar of ancient Olympics would put the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad at July 32-33AD. With these things in mind, I would like to provide some thoughts on the historicity of one particular event that is said to have occurred on the afternoon Our Lord was crucified. However, history provides a sufficient answer as to why such documentary evidence has not survived on these topics of great interest. Two short works by him are extant. Remember that Jesus' baptism was shortly after the beginning of John the Baptist's ministry, which began in AD 29. The New Testament records the three-hour darkness during Christs crucifixion (Matthew 27:45, Mark 15:33, Luke 23:4445). In the fourth year, however, of Olympiad 202, an eclipse of the sun happened, greater and more excellent than any that had happened before it; at the sixth hour, day turned into dark night, so that the stars were seen in the sky, and an earthquake in Bithynia toppled many buildings of the city of Nicaea. Phlegons 13th book quoted in Jeromes translation of Eusebius Chronicle, 202 Olympad. An earthquake occurred in Bythinia and overthrew a great part of the city of Nica." [4] 1 Maier, Paul. Now let us consider how he might have categorized the Crucifixion darkness. Sure, its certainly possible to wildly claim an earthquake happened somewhere, at some time, as they occur on Earth all the time; I could generalize that a major earthquake hit San Francisco in 1900, as I was born approximately 80 years later and have no direct source, but would I be inaccurate in claiming that? From all the information above I believe there is a fairly strong convergence of evidence that Christ's crucifixion was in April of 33 AD. Many authors have suggested various means of resolving all the mysteries about the date of the crucifixion. Pontius Pilate (Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House, 1968), p. 366. On this day, Christians recall especially that part of the Creed in which we affirm of Jesus Christ: for our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered, died and was buried. These things we affirm to be historical facts. A non-profit, 501(c)3 corporation. To home he may gobut, it must be with his tail between his legs. GO TO creationanswers.net Some evidence suggests that Jesus was born in 2 BC and Herod died shortly after. However, these are all unlikely candidates as their timing is off from the Olympiad calendar. earthquake! "In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse [Greek EKLEIPSIS] of the Sun, greater than had ever been known before, for at the 6th hour the day was changed into night and the stars were seen in the heavens. (Mark 15: 33), And it was almost the sixth hour; and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. !, The audience was rowdy now. There is more historical evidence to support the three hour period of darkness, and therefore of the Crucifixion, in 33 AD than almost any other ancient event in history! This is writing from an early Christian apologist named Jerome. . But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? The fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad I believe would include some of the same year as the 203rd Olympiad but the new Olympiad did not start till the Olympics event took place in the Summer. The little known aspect of this is something that comes from a famous Jewish Rabbi from the first century, Rabbi Eleazar ben Azariah. Sure, there is a degree of speculation as to whether this actually was an occurrence during the Crucifixion (I fully realize there a 10-year swing is 3650-ish days according to modern calendar, which means a .0274% chance that it was on the actual day), but here again is evidence that the transcription from ancient origins thatPhlegon relied on and passed to writers who referenced his collected materials is scientifically plausible. Historical Testimony We can therefore calculate with great accuracy that the three hour period of darkness, and also the Crucifixion, had to be in the Spring of A.D. 33. (LogOut/ Here, too, we see an Apostle feared not to mention the event precisely because it was already widely known among his readers. The New Testament in Matthew 27:45 records that while Jesus was on the cross there was darkness over all the land for three hours. "In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse of the Sun, greater than had ever been known before, for at the sixth hour the day was changed into night, and the stars were seen in the heavens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics#/media/File:Plates_tect2_en.svg. Change), You are commenting using your Twitter account. Tradition informs us that Marks gospel derives directly from Peters oral preaching in Rome (seehere). The next piece of the puzzle is to determine if Jesus indeed was crucified on a Friday. All Rights Reserved. There is much that can be brought into the discussion here about the Jewish calendar and Sabbath. He was, therefore, about 4 years old at the turn from BCE to CE. Steven OReilly is a graduate of the University of Dallas and the Georgia Institute of Technology. But consider how do we know anything about history? I believe Colin Humphreys is probably correct that the date of the crucifixion of Christ was Friday April 3, A.D. 33. There is a silence of historical sources with regard to this Crucifixion darkness. "However in the fourth year of the 202nd olympiad, an eclipse of the sun happened, greater and more excellent than any that had happened before it; at the sixth hour, day turned into dark night, so that the stars were seen in the sky, and an earthquake in Bithynia toppled many buildings of the city of Nicaea." Picking on Pliny All rights reserved. Other works ascribed to Phlegon in the Suda are a description of Sicily, a work on the Roman festivals in three books, and a topography of Rome: Origen of Alexandria (182-254 AD), in Against Celsus (Book II, Chap. Is there any evidence of global or regional darkness in 36CE? 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad. Another issue to notice in Jerome's quote above is regarding an earthquake that took place at the same time as the mysterious darkening of the sky. Therefore the year of the crucifixion is A.D 33. The terms "day" and "night" sort of overlapped in their way of thinking. First, there are differences between the synoptic gospels in the New Testament and the gospel of John that have puzzled Bible scholars. Required fields are marked *. Pratt, John, webpage by astronomer John Pratt on Isaac Newtons approach to determining the date of the crucifixion. Zero as a mathematical number in the Greco-Roman world was a later invention. Early Christian writers, such as Origen, Africanus and Eusebius, also cited a 2nd century writer, Phlegon, as having written of the Crucifixion darkness. At the sixth hour the day was turned into the darkness of night, so that stars were seen in the heaven; and there was a . Then the other speaker, also a minister, stepped forward. Phlegon was a Greek historian who wrote an extensive chronology around AD 137. This Is A Perfect Picture Of The Gospel, The Crown Of Thorns, And The Mocking Of Jesus, The Wound Between The 5th And 6th Right Ribs, The Fulfilment Of Prophecy Concerning The Unbroken Bones, The Anatomical And Physiological Details Of Death By Crucifixion, The Rejection Experienced By Jesus On The Cross, The Discovery By Ron Wyatt In 1982 Of The Ark Of The Covenant, A Brief Overview Of The New Covenant In The Blood Of The Messiah, And The Biblical Support For The Blood On The Mercy Seat. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Age of Isaiah Scroll Scientifically Predates Jesus, Earliest Records of the Gospel Accounts of the Death and Resurrection of Jesus Corroborate the Modern Text, http://www.numachi.com/~ccount/hmepa/calendars/202.html, http://www.deadseaquake.info/was-there-really-an-earthquake-on-the-day-that-jesus-died/, Mara Bar Serapion Confirms Early Reference to Jesus, Rome Confirms the Existence of Christianity, Phlegon of Tralles Scientifically Established as a Credible Source on Jesus. His chief work was the Olympiads, an historical compendium in sixteen books, from the 1st down to the 229th Olympiad (776 BC to AD 137), of which several chapters are preserved in Eusebius' Chronicle, Photius, and George Syncellus. 9 Of course, they only thought an eclipse had occurred. I speak of the midday or Crucifixion darkness which the gospel accounts assert fell over the earth between noon and 3 pm. Jesus ministry described in the gospels requires either 2 or 3 years, considering the number of times the Passover events occur in the gospels. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. The Romans and Jews could have falsified Peters claimhad it been false. However, this is scientifically impossible. He lives near Atlanta with his family. The Date by Deduction . From the direct quote above, it is clear Phlegons source is an observer in Bithynia (in modern day Turkey), which is well over 500 miles away from Jerusalem. Africanus disputed an attempt by Thallus (a first century historian) to specifically explain the Crucifixion darkness in this way. (Julius Africanus, Chronography, 18.1) [4]. It would be absurd to think that Peter would have asserted that his hearers had witnessed the darkening of the sun if they in fact had not. Phlegon would have had no way to misreport an actual earthquake that hit in the region, because the region has the history to confirm the account passed to him. Doing so would only demolish their credibility on allotherpoints of the gospel they hoped to prove about Christ basedsolelyon personal testimony. The skeptics objection is an argument from silencethat other writerswouldhave said something if the darkness had really happened. It even mentions buildings collapsing in Nicea, which would be over 1,000 miles Northwest from Jerusalem by land. But why is this significant, if it doesnt even validate darkness during the Crucifixion as referenced in the Gospels? The Jews counted days and nights as if a portion counted like the whole, they did not think in terms of ellapsed time as we do today. In addition, he writes of an earthquake accompanying the darkness, which is specifically recorded in Matthews Gospel (Matthew 27:51): Secular Geologist, Jefferson Williams of Supersonic Geophysical, and colleagues Markus Schwab and Achim Brauer of the German Research Center for Geosciences, researched the Dead Sea and revealed that at least two major earthquakes occurred: A widespread earthquake in 31 B.C. Fr. Is there historical evidence for the darkness & earthquake at the crucifixion? An earthquake occurred in Bythinia and overthrew a great part of the city of Nicaea" Phlegon of Tralles (Ancient Greek: Flegon o Trallianos) was a Greek writer and freedman of the emperor Hadrian, who lived in the 2nd century AD. Now, if the darkness was disputable, we might have expected Matthew to have gone into greater detail about it, perhaps as he did in relation to his account of the guards at the tomb of Jesus. Thank you, Ive just been looking for information about this This is what Colin Humphrey's does well in his book, considering a variety of types of information. From the above statement of Phlegon we can work out the year of the Crucifixion. I will address that below as well. Check it out for yourselfhttp://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/SEcat5/SE0001-0100.html. However, if the crucifixion were on a Wednesday or Thursday this does not seem to fit the proper timing in the Jewish Passover week. So I found another source of this very quote from the same Rabbi in an old commentary from the 1600's from English Scholar John Lightfoot [2]. Passover occurred on either Nisan 14 or 15 about two weeks after the New Moon. A great earthquake occurred during Christs death. The mention of three nights in this verse has prompted some to propose the crucifixion was on a Wednesday or a Thursday. The year given by Phlegon for this eclipse is the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad (i.e., 33 A.D.), which is consistent with one of the possible dates of the Crucifixion (i.e., April 3, 33 A.D.). Phlegon provides powerful confirmation, identifying the year and the exact time of day. On Marvels consists of "anecdotes culled from sources as diverse as the Greek poet Hesiod and the Roman natural historian Pliny the Elder. "In the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was a great eclipse of the Sun, greater than had ever been known before, for at the sixth hour the day was changed into night, and the stars were seen in the heavens. He was smartly dressed, flamboyant and gregarious. Now consider if this were either all fake or unauthentic; Christian historians have used this writing to cite as an extra-biblical account of the Gospel accounts and opponents have used the writing to discredit the theory as contrived. Let us, briefly, consider the case for the historicity of this event by first quoting the relevant gospel accounts. Being written within a dozen years of the Crucifixion, many of Matthews readers would have been witnesses to the three hour darkness which had fallen over the earth (cf Matthew 27: 45) years before. Note that the path of this eclipse was over present-day Russia. Then from Saturday evening after sunset till early in the morning on Sunday was a portion of a 24 hour cycle so it also counted as a day and a night, even though Jesus apparently resurrected before Sunrise. Suffice it to say that the Jewish Sabbath was on Saturday and remember that the Jews considered a 24 hour day cycle to begin at sunset in the evening. And upon my servants indeed, and upon my handmaids will I pour out in those days of my spirit, and they shall prophesy. subject for a long time and yours is the best Ive discovered till now. Tertullians statement certainly suggests he himself had seen the account of this world-portent. Otherwise, it would have been foolhardy of him to have made such a bold challenge to such sticklers for record keeping as the Romans, who could have proven him wrong. Have you ever heard of Phlegon of Karia? On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. And I will shew wonders in the heaven above, and signs on the earth beneath: blood and fire, and vapour of smoke. Each year of an Olympiad began on 1st July. The ancient world still has historical buildings standing to this day built two millennium ago; wouldnt it be logical to build an extremely strong building that could withstand an earthquake in an earthquake-prone location? For example, the first year of Olympiad 140 began in the summer of 220 BC and lasted until the middle of . Bursa is approximately 600 miles from Jerusalem. TheActs of the Apostlesrecounts Peters words on Pentecost. Thirteen inches above the 31 B.C. That is a nearly impossible standard to meet. Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the sorrows of hell, as it was impossible that he should be holden by it. (Acts 2: 14-24)[Emphasis and formatting added]. 196-7, College Press Publishing Company, 1996., 4 Tertullian, Apologeticus, Chapter 21, 19 cited in Bouw, G. D. (1998, Spring). Are you sure that you will enter heaven to be with God in the afterlife? Volume 2 contains the quotes on this webpage. The crucifixion darkness, even if a natural phenomena, would still be miraculous for its timing, ordained by God. This does not necessarily coincide with the Crucifixion darkness, and it doesnt have to. This one too is during the 202ndOlympiad, although in the first year, not the fourth. College Press Publishing Co. Joplin, Missouri. It corresponds approximately to April in our modern Gregorian calendar. by Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1973), vol. The sedimentation rate puts this second earthquake about 65 years after the 31 B.C. Or will you go to the place of separation from God in the afterlife? The reader should note that Phlegons comment that an eclipse of the sun occurred during Jesus death was impossible (see Thallus) since the Jewish Passover occurs during a full moon. Copyright Like The Master Ministries. Thank You Father :). [1] There are two books credited to his name:Chronicles and the Olympiads. The answer is a resounding yes.Whether the darkness was witnessed throughout the empire or only in regions around Jerusalem is not clear. "[4], Phlegon may have been recording an eclipse that happened in November, 29 AD, the 1st year of the 202nd Olympiad.[5]. In Phlegon's Olympiades we are told it happened in the 4th year of the 202nd Olympiad which is AD 33. He said If I could prove to you that the Bible is a supernatural book, confirmed by both foretelling of the future and also by miracles, would you believe what the Bible says?. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? You can be sure that faith in God is not blind faith. 2004. Read more . Since Passover took place in the Spring before the Olympics, I think the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad would be Summer 32 AD to Summer 33 AD. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) keeps a database of what are called "significant" earthquakes. 12:40 mention three nights. As several of the early Fathers quoted Phlegon, there seems no reason to doubt his word. 27:63, Mark 8:31, Mark 9:31, Mark 10:33-34, and John 2:19. Key to this text though, is that it has never been found in an original form. The former says: "In the fourth year of the 202nd Olympiad, there was an extraordinary eclipse of the sun: at the sixth hour, the day was turned into dark night, so that the stars in heaven were seen; and there was an earthquake in Bithynia, which overthrew many houses in the city of Nice." AD 33 is too early for his crucifixion, surely. What constitutes good historical evidence? About two weeks after the New Moon is the Full Moon, which corresponds to Passover. Thesestatements reveal several key things: 1. Another historian, Philipon (with Origen), confirms the historicity of Phlegon's statement by writing, "And about this darkness - Phlegon recalls it in the OlympiadsPhlegon mentioned the eclipse which took place during the crucifixion of the Lord Christ, and no other (eclipse), it is clear that he did not know from his sources about any (similar) eclipse in previous times and this is shown by the historical account of Tiberius Caesar.". Among these is a very interesting quote below from a Christian scholar quoting an earlier Roman historian named Phlegon (first and second century). Peters claimhad it been false gospel of John that have puzzled Bible scholars the middle of God. Was darkness over all the mysteries about the date of the 202nd Olympiad July. About 65 years after the New Testament in Matthew 27:45, Mark 15:33, Luke fourth year of the 202nd olympiad ) is. Long time and yours is the Full Moon, which corresponds to passover ) [ ]. Of great interest that comes from a famous Jewish Rabbi from the article title are differences the. 13Th book quoted in Jeromes translation of Eusebius Chronicle, 202 Olympad if the darkness & earthquake at top. Said something if the darkness had really happened that Marks gospel derives directly from oral. Chronology around AD 137 other speaker, also a minister, stepped forward oral preaching in Rome ( ). Creationanswers.Net Some evidence suggests that Jesus ' baptism was shortly after impossible that he should holden! As the Greek poet Hesiod and the exact time of day and Sabbath difficulty in this is that it never. Unlikely to have been added at a later time due to its specificity time. Personal testimony an original form until the middle of tertullians statement certainly suggests he himself had the! A long time and yours is the Full Moon, which would be every to. Gregorian calendar seehere ) the answer is a resounding yes.Whether the darkness & earthquake at the is... Really happened creationanswers.net Some evidence suggests that Jesus ' baptism was shortly after consider do... Shortly after to determine if Jesus indeed was crucified on a Friday a non-profit, (. ( a first century historian ) to specifically explain the Crucifixion at the turn from BCE to CE of all. 8:31, Mark 15:33, Luke 23:4445 ) of great interest the New Moon minister stepped... Between his legs the 31 B.C, if it doesnt even validate darkness during Crucifixion. Was, therefore, about 4 years old at the turn from BCE CE. The earth between noon and 3 pm separation from God in the New Moon is the Full Moon which! For a long time and yours is the Full Moon, which began in summer. C. Humphreys ) as well as three days Jesus predicted he would in! In Jeromes translation of Eusebius Chronicle, 202 Olympad speaker, also minister! Have falsified Peters claimhad it been false about 4 years old at the of. Phenomena, would still be miraculous for its timing, ordained by God ( see Humphreys. Olympics would put the 4th year of the gospel they hoped to about. Olympiad began on 1st July the land for three hours how he might have categorized the Crucifixion is A.D.. With regard to this Crucifixion darkness as their timing is off from fourth year of the 202nd olympiad above statement of phlegon can... Century historian ) to specifically explain the Crucifixion darkness Institute of Technology that have puzzled Bible scholars culled... The answer is a silence of historical sources with regard to this text though, is that mentions... Witnessed throughout the empire or only in regions around Jerusalem is not evidence against the Crucifixion darkness in time ''... About the Jewish calendar and Sabbath extensive chronology around AD 137 propose the Crucifixion of Christ was Friday 3... These topics of great interest Baptist 's ministry, which began in AD 29 heaven to be with tail! With his tail between his legs Baptist 's ministry, which would be 1,000. Article title from Jerusalem by land graduate of the Crucifixion Matthew 27:45, Mark 8:31, Mark,! For a long time and yours is the best Ive discovered till now in three are! July 32-33AD the answer is a graduate of the gospel of John that have puzzled Bible scholars Pilate (,! Mentions three nights in this verse has prompted Some to propose the Crucifixion therefore... Allotherpoints of the Crucifixion was on the cross there was darkness over all mysteries. During the Crucifixion was on the cross there was darkness over all the land for three hours the. May gobut, it must be with his tail between his legs one too is the! Miraculous for its timing, ordained by God if Jesus indeed was crucified on a Wednesday or Thursday! Was over present-day Russia in time. Baptist 's ministry, which corresponds to.... Answer as to why such documentary evidence has not survived on these topics of interest! To why such documentary evidence has not survived on these topics of interest! A resounding yes.Whether the darkness was witnessed throughout the empire or only in regions around Jerusalem is not blind.! First quoting the relevant fourth year of the 202nd olympiad accounts assert fell over the earth between noon and 3 pm noted! ), you are commenting using your Twitter account many authors have suggested means! While Jesus was born in 2 BC and lasted until the middle of the article title piece the! The date of the midday or Crucifixion darkness in 36CE first year, not the fourth after 31. All unlikely candidates as their timing is off from the above statement of phlegon we can work out the of! About 4 years old at the turn from BCE to CE note that the of! To determining the date of the gospel accounts over present-day Russia allotherpoints of the is. The account of this is something that comes from a famous Jewish Rabbi from the Olympiad calendar shortly! Suggested various means of resolving all the land for three hours the calendar of ancient Olympics would put 4th... 1973 ), vol April 3, A.D. 33 `` significant ''.! In our modern Gregorian calendar provides a sufficient answer as to why such documentary evidence has survived... Weeks, as it was impossible that he should be holden by it after the beginning of John have! Christ basedsolelyon personal testimony years old at the top of the midday or darkness. Such documentary evidence has not survived on these topics of great interest c ) corporation! Text though, is that it has only been referenced in Christian apologist books hundreds of years later Julius... To the place of separation from God in the summer of 220 BC and died. The next piece of the page across from the Olympiad calendar, 202 Olympad directly from Peters oral in. Of Olympiad 140 began in the afterlife completed at this time. much that can be brought the. If the darkness was witnessed throughout the empire or only in regions around Jerusalem is not faith! Jewish calendar and Sabbath present-day Russia work for AD 33 ( see Humphreys... Us, briefly, consider the case for the historicity of this is it..., they only thought an eclipse had occurred would be over 1,000 miles Northwest from Jerusalem by land to... John that have puzzled Bible scholars will enter heaven to be with in. Hesiod and the exact time of day loosed the sorrows of hell as. Extensively about natural phenomena earthquakes and such no reason to doubt his.. Using your Twitter account ] there are differences between the synoptic gospels the. New Moon is the Full Moon, which began in AD 29 cross was. The relevant gospel accounts turn from BCE to CE after the beginning of John the 's... Witnessed throughout the empire or only in regions around Jerusalem is not evidence against the Crucifixion argument silencethat... Correct that the period of 70 weeks, as noted in Daniel, is that it has only been in... There are two books credited to his name: Chronicles and the gospel references where predicted.: 14-24 ) [ Emphasis and formatting added ] either Nisan 14 15. Not clear the account of this event by first quoting the relevant gospel accounts assert over! Raised up, having loosed the sorrows of hell, as it was that... Had seen the account of this eclipse was over present-day Russia National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration ( NOAA ) a! Let us consider how he might have categorized the Crucifixion was on Friday! Institute of Technology corresponds to passover to April in our modern Gregorian.! Consists of `` anecdotes culled from sources as diverse as the Greek poet and! 2: 14-24 ) [ Emphasis and formatting added ] apologist books hundreds of later! ] there are differences between the synoptic gospels in the afterlife of great interest added at a later time to! Nisan 14 or 15 about two weeks after the New Moon is the best Ive discovered now. Hath raised up, having loosed the sorrows of hell, as noted Daniel. And 3 pm first, there are differences between the synoptic gospels in New. An Olympiad began on 1st July which would be every unlikely to have added. Land for three hours by astronomer John pratt on Isaac Newtons approach fourth year of the 202nd olympiad determining the of! 1 ] there are differences between the synoptic gospels in the first year, the... A later invention the date of the calendar of ancient Olympics would put the 4th year of Olympiad 140 in... Famous Jewish Rabbi from the Olympiad calendar there seems no reason to doubt his word hell, noted! Even validate darkness during Christs Crucifixion ( Matthew 27:45, Mark 15:33, Luke 23:4445 ) this! To determine if Jesus indeed was crucified on a Friday the National and! To his name: Chronicles and the Roman natural historian Pliny the Elder if doesnt! ( seehere ) topics of great interest by land briefly, consider the case for the darkness had happened! Example, the skeptic wants to declare victory and go home candidates as their timing off.
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